Mitt Romney's speech

[fabrisse]

This is my first reaction to reports about Mr. Romney's Mormonism for the Christian Right speech. I have not read a full transcript, nor have I heard the speech.

Having disclaimed that, this quote is disturbing. Perhaps context will make it less so, but it's three words. How much parsing can there be?

Freedom requires religion?!?

The hell?

When I was a believer, I never thought atheists or agnostics had fewer freedoms or rights to freedom.

As a non-believer (or uncertain of belief-er), I fear my freedom being linked to any idea of God.

Religion is personal. That was the point of my ancestors coming here.

Freedom is social. There's no point in guaranteeing it, if the guarantee doesn't apply to all.

Comments

[wadjet-theperv.livejournal.com]

Sometimes though, I wonder if people like him *say* these things as a means to their own ends. My neighbours growing up became Mormon and their heartfelt believe in exclusionism ran as far as my neighbours having to baptise their deceased family into the Mormon faith because if they didn't, they'd never meet in heaven (because you had to become Mormon to get there). This wasn't being mean, it was a real heartfelt belief that there was only one way to salvation.

The spiritual attachment fundamentalists have to Israel stems from the need of the Jewish people to all be there, so that they can be converted to the one true faith, and only when that happens will the Second Coming happen.

I may have got that all wrong, but that was my understanding.

That's why even though this *sounds* inclusive, there's no way it can be, even of the other monotheistic faiths let alone any others (and I'm counting lack of religious faith as a faith here). If it was, it would be denying one of the main principles of his own.

[undauntra.livejournal.com]

IIRC, Mormons actually believe in three heavens - and Mormons go to a different heaven than non-Mormons. So it's not exactly an "only one way to salvation" as "only one way to the same salvation that we're going to." Basically, there's one heaven for bad people that is just like earth except with any war or crime or death or any of that set of bad stuff. There's one heaven for good non-Mormons which is the most wonderful place you can imagine. And there's the special heaven for Mormons, which is so good that you can't imagine it. There's also a Hell, but very very few people go to Hell in Mormon theology - basically, you have to have perfect knowledge of what God is and reject him anyway, and mortals aren't capable of having perfect knowledge of God unless there's a miraculous revelation involved.

The Mormon heaven is also supposed to be advanced training for the next stage in spiritual development, which is why the Mormons would rather go there than settle for just an amazingly nice heaven with their non-Mormon buddies. It'd be like staying a perpetual teenager - possibly comforting, but underachieving.

[fabrisse.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I knew about the special heaven for good Mormons, but I wasn't aware of their view of hell.

The middle heaven reminds me of my Jehovah's Witness ladies explaining that very few people are fit for the perfection of heaven, so God will give us Paradise here on earth. It was agreed that she'd grow all the vegetables she wanted and I'd cook them. *G*

And you're right, the Republican religious arbiters are probably more suspicious of Mormonism lacking Jesus as the "one way to salvation."

[wadjet-theperv.livejournal.com]

Blimey. That sounds complicated! Thanks for clearing it up. Religions fascinate me. Their differences and their similarities. You really do learn something new every day :)