For Americans Only

[fabrisse]

[Poll #1964614]

This came about because someone on Slate left a comment that soon people wouldn't be required to swear on the Bible to testify in court. I thought everyone knew that the Quakers (and others) had ensured that affirmation -- with no book or mention of G-d -- was acceptable from pre-Constitutional times to the present.

I had to alter my written form when taking my oath of office, but I was allowed to cross off "so help me G-d" and change the word "swear" to "affirm."

Comments

[harvey-rrit.livejournal.com]

I cannot answer the first part for all of America because it isn't uniform.

And I cannot address the second part because I consider ze to be 4th person.

[fabrisse.livejournal.com]

It's uniform at the Federal level -- and I think that supersedes anything an individual state might require, though it could take a long time to test it.

4th person, like the 4th dimension? It's a verbal tesseract (in the Madeleine L'Engle usage)?

[harvey-rrit.livejournal.com]

Well, you didn't specify Federal, so it's darn lucky for you you're so cool or I would have had to do that whole curse thing.

As for 4th person, I haven't thought it out that far, and it doesn't look like I'm going to.

[fabrisse.livejournal.com]

I live in DC, so I tend to think of Federal as default. Sorry that I wasn't clearer.

[harvey-rrit.livejournal.com]

I grew up in Bowie, where half the households were supported by bureaucratic salaries, so I didn't have a lot of experience with people taking an oath at Federal level either. (Requiring a career bureaucrat to make statements under penalty of perjury strikes me as obviously entrapment.)

[siderea]

I wasn't sure about the hotswappability of other holy texts until Keith Ellison got sworn in to Congress on the Quran. (Thomas Jefferson's personal Quran, no less.)

[fabrisse.livejournal.com]

Yeah, not too many people realize that no book is required, but if you want to use one, it can be anything.

[tediousandbrief.livejournal.com]

I couldn't click the top one since there wasn't an answer that fit or a "none of these".

I've been in court a fair amount due to my job and I don't think I have ever seen someone swear on a Bible or other holy book before testifying.

All people do here is stand, raise their right hand, and say "I do" when asked if they swear or affirm to tell the truth. I don't even think the bailiff says "so help you God" anymore.

Granted, these are all in state court, but even then, I'm fairly sure they don't drag out a Bible for the sake of an oath in Federal court.

Some past President's haven't been sworn in on a bible (Teddy Roosevelt) and some have chosen to instead swear on a copy of the Constitution or book of laws.

Conservatives like to get all riled up about it, but it's just them being their usual self with being upset about anything they dislike.

[fabrisse.livejournal.com]

That's good to know. You're in Illinois, right?

Is Teddy the only one who hasn't sworn on the Bible? I know Hoover and Nixon were Quaker (Yeah, Nixon) and therefore should have affirmed.

[tediousandbrief.livejournal.com]

I'm just using wikipedia. They said TR didn't use it in his 1901 swearing in. LBJ used a Roman Catholic missal on Air Force One after President Kennedy died. John Quincy Adams used a law book. Most presidents either used a bible or it is unknown (for early presidents.)

Apparently Obama, Harry S. Truman, and Nixon (he was a Quaker? Really!?) were all sworn in with two bibles. Obama was sworn in with the Lincoln and MLK Bibles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_inauguration#List_of_inaugural_ceremonies

[fabrisse.livejournal.com]

I love wikipedia. I wish they all swore on the Constitution (and then proved that they'd read it).

[tediousandbrief.livejournal.com]

Hey! Thank you! Your postcard arrived today! My parents have actually stayed in that hotel once! :D

[fabrisse.livejournal.com]

It was beautiful. We stayed in the old part of the hotel and ate meals looking at Diamond Head.

[harvey-rrit.livejournal.com]

Whatever was being used to swear in some Presidents was either a mockup with blank pages or never holy in the first place. I can think of at least nine Presidents who should have been struck by lightning the moment they touched such a thing.

[serafina20.livejournal.com]

We just had this discussion in "Hannibal" fandom, because Hannibal swore on the Bible. The general consensus was that he did it because he's Satan and thought it'd be funny. (I was impressed that most people knew that he wasn't required to swear on a Bible).

[fabrisse.livejournal.com]

Proving that fandom is a good source for education and culture. ;-)