Advice

[fabrisse]

I want advice.

There's an open position at the Boys and Girls Club that I'm interested in. The problem is that it would be doing something that I love as an amateur -- cooking -- and turning it into my livelihood.

The club is going to be participating in a wider program for good nutrition. The position is predominantly food planning and preparation, but will involve some accounting and quite a bit of community liaison work.

The thing is most people have no concept of how to cook seasonally. None. We've become so used to the idea of being able to get what we want when we want it (sure, we might have to pay a little more) that very few people can do the seasonal planning. I know that I can.

What's more, I know that I have recipes and resources for taking "unpalatable" vegetables and turning them into something that people can love. Part of the program contributions are coming from an organization called America's Second Harvest -- so it's completely possible that a crate of beets could be passed along to this place and need to be used immediately.

The HR person I talked with said something like "These people will be happy with a grilled cheese sandwich and tomato soup. It's been so long since they've had a hot meal." But I watched the public schools in Belgium serve three course meals at lunch for about $3.50 per person per day. Grilled cheese and tomato soup should be the very last resort.

The downsides to this are the stresses. Physical stresses include lifting heavy pans, blisters from chopping, and fatigue. Mental stresses include "what if they don't like it," the constraints of supplies, the fear that I'll stop loving something I love.

Advice? Questions, queries, comments?

Comments

[tpau]

well, if you love it, and can derive livelihood form doing some thing you love, i'd say go forit. if you don't you will always wonder if you should have, andyou cna always quit... i say go for it

[siderea]

Fabrisse can always quit? Really? I hadn't noticed that about her. :)

[fabrisse.livejournal.com]

They've already said they want a year's commitment, minimum, from whomever they hire. And as siderea points out, I've been known to keep going when I make a commitment whether or not my health or sanity permits it. I'm not certain that quitting is an option.

On the other hand, if they hire me elsewhere in the club, maybe there's a chance that I can volunteer in someone else's kitchen one day a week. That would take away most of the creative aspects, but might keep the mythical someone else from snapping.

[mecurtin.livejournal.com]

But you might end up loving it *more*, too.

My family belongs to an organic farm CSA. For years now we've donated a share to the local woman's shelter, because when I was a poor grad student one of the things I missed most was fresh vegetables. The people at the shelter have had to give informal "what to do with seasonal food" classes to the women at the shelter, who are used to shopping at the kind of markets where the meat is green and the vegetables are brown. The clients could use tomatoes, but had *no idea* what to do with an eggplant.

I think it's a wonderful idea. So few of us have jobs where we can *see* that we're making a difference, and good food is one of the easiest ways to make people happy.

[fabrisse.livejournal.com]

You have the appeal of this position taped.

The downsides though include the fact that it's one position. Hot meals served family style for up to 125 people per day and there's only one person to do every aspect of it. From meal planning to bookkeeping, from deliveries to negotiations, from hostess (community outreach is an important factor) to cooking, they want one person to do it five days a week. I'm not sure that I'm physically or mentally capable of it.

[ex-danvers514.livejournal.com]

If there's a chance you can make money from something you love, you should always give it a shot. I don't think you can ever stop loving something you love. The love is embedded. If anything, you'll probably love it more. Hopefully ;-)

[jeannie81.livejournal.com]

I think you should go for it. However it turns out, it's still something new you've experienced. And you can always find something else, if you don't like it.

[jerminating.livejournal.com]

I think that if you can make people love beets then you're a miracle worker.

I also thonk you should go for. After all, life is a lot more fun if you can dedicate a third of your day to doing something that you enjoy.

[siderea]

Unlike everyone else who has posted so far, I see a lot of reason for concern. Not that I think you shouldn't do it, but that I think your concerns are very real, and much more valid that the other posters have given you credit for.

Some factors to consider: In this job you will be exposed to two forces at potentially crippling levels of strength.

The first of these, as you noted, will be criticism about your art. Other people have said things like "if you get a chance to do what you love for money, you should go for it." That may be true -- though I'll remind you that you yourself said to me that you don't recommend doing that for your MB Type! -- but if it is, one still must be very careful with arts that one is ready to expose one's art to the world, and one must be very careful that what looks like a job in your art actually is (as many a fine artist who has taken up commercial art has discovered.)

Kids can be very blunt with their criticism, especially of food. Is your confidence in your ability and talent as a chef sufficient that you can take it in stride? Or will having to cater to conservative tastes going to essentially redefine your job from something creative to something that's a chore? Your identity as a cook is very precious to you; is the criticism of an open audience going to assail your identity?

The question here, let me be clear, is not whether you can cope with that criticism and with having to work within such parameters, it's whether you want to invite that into your life right now. You do get to say, "I could do it, but I don't want that grief right now." :)

The other force is responsibility. If you take this job, you will have a large number of people counting on you daily. What happens if you get sick? Will the guilt at not being able to do your job crush you emotionally? You are someone with a problem with responsibility; you don't seem to have any brakes on your sense of it! Will you be able to put proper limits on this job, to keep your current gains in wellnes?

It seems to me that this job has the potential to leave you very emotionally exposed. So the question is "Are you ready for the emotional challenges of this job?" You're the only person who can answer that.

There seems to me to be a very obvious solution to this situation. Ask them if you could do the job for a month. Then make a decision.

[fabrisse.livejournal.com]

On the one hand, I'm cocky enough to think that I can make turnips that kids will like. Moreover, thanks to the SCA I have tons of ideas for soups and stews that will use ingredients that we're likely to get -- ingredients that many US cookbooks neglect.

But you're right, planning a dinner party and having some leeway in a budget is very different from finding myself surrounded by winesap apples and looking for someway to turn them into sauce.

So, still thinking, but I have a better idea of the questions that I'm asking -- both them and myself. Nailing down jello seems to be a big part of my life at this place.

[siderea]

On the one hand, I'm cocky enough to think that I can make turnips that kids will like.

I think you can make turnips 99 out of 100 kids will like. But that one hundredth kid is the one you -- or anyone in your situation -- is most likely to remember. Success/failure is a different axis than praise/criticism.

On the other hand, the fact that you understand the enormous scope of the undertaking -- and are properly daunted :) -- means you're likely to bring the big guns to bear. For instance, you say you have to do all the work alone; what about involving the kids? ("For a start, a 10 year old can peel apples....") You might very well wind up with your own enrichment program. (Before setting your sights on such a solution, find out if it's even permitted; sometimes liability issues keep kids out of institutional kitchens.)

[siderea]

Hmm. Some further thoughts:

I think this job could have a lot to teach you, but the question is whether it's what you want to learn right now. Or, as I've come to think of it, whether this is the butterfly you want to chase.

In the field of music, we sometimes divide the world into "pure" or "real" music on one hand, and "utilitarian" music on the other hand. Pure music is the purely artistic stuff, which exists solely for the sake of being art. Utilitarian music includes all music which exists for other purposes, including dance.

I see a very clear analogy between cooking and music in this. This job is about utilitarian food. That doesn't mean that there can't be artistry, but that the standards by which it will be judged will not be the standards of pure art, but the standards of utilitarian art. The extent to which you would be able to be happy in this job would be a function of how well you could work to that other standard.

Submitting yourself to a standard of utilitarian art is just about the best of all possible ways to master your craft. There's nothing like it for truly mastering technique and repertoire. This really is how one goes from being a talented amateur to a skilled craftsman.

This is basically the story of my life; I put my art in that crucible, and it came out much refined. I did dance music for 10 years, and the results were not only better technique in specific, but better sense of technique in general. But that has to do with where I was at that point in time. I don't know where you are in this point in time. I was at a place where I didn't need to focus on being more expressive or artistic, I needed to learn how to be more consistent and thorough, and how to produce on demand.

So taking on this job would ultimately result -- if you survived in it -- in a much deepened relationship with your craft. I expect it would be rough going at first. The adjustment is usually pretty hard on the ego; I know a lot of musicians who couldn't make the conversion. But if you made it through the first year, you would probably learn an immense amount.

The question then is: is that where you want to go with your life right now? Is that where you want to go with your art, and is that the role you want this art to take in your life?

The way it looks to me is that this job has some really big costs; it may have some really big pay-outs. The questions are: can you afford the mortgage? and is this the house you want to live in?

[eanja]

I'm also going to chime in w/ a few concerns.

First of all, you mention the physical stress. I don't know how much they are likely to expect you to lift or haul around, but unless you know for sure that you will have assistance if needed, you really do need to be sure they aren't going to just forget that entire crates of food are heavier than individual items and leave you to cope.

Like siderea, I do think it may matter who you are cooking for. From your comments on planning and community, it sounds as if it may be largely adults, or people who are specifically interested in learning to cook seasonally and more nutriously, in which case you should be fine. If it is children, the approval level may have very little to do with what you actually prepare. In my experience, children are quite likely to decide they hate something before even trying it, and having once made that announcement, will refuse to admit they like it out of sheer stubbornness.

On a purely practical level, how does the pay compare w/ what you are doing now? Would this be on top of the reception work, or instead of it? If the latter, would the extra money balance the extra time/stress? If the former, and it turns out there is too much physical labor or you find you dislike having something you love turn into a chore, how hard would it be to find another job again? Is this a permanent position, or a temporary one? Because honestly, while money isn't everything, it tends to loom pretty large until you have a certain amount of it.

If you would be working out of the same place as current job, the responsibility issues should be about the same (although perhaps not, as a receptionist might be easier to replace temporarily if you are ill). If it's not from the same place, how does getting there compare, especially w/ winter coming on?

I would lean toward recommending you try it, overall, because if you can get a job you really enjoy, it's a wonderful thing. And it seems like something you'd be really good at, as well as one that would be helping people (which I think matters to you). I'd just encourage you to see if you can come up w/ a back-up plan in case you turn out to hate it.

[fabrisse.livejournal.com]

The pay would definitely be better, and since I'd be a regular employee there'd be benefits. Those are both things I can get behind.

As I seem to keep writing, I have lots of food for thought.

Food For Thought

[(Anonymous)]

I agree heartily with Sidera that your concerns about this job are valid, and need to be addressed before you make a decision. And yes, cooking what may well be the one hot meal 125 people get every day is a daunting task. As has been mentioned, there will be certain people who refuse to eat what you've prepared, or will speak slightingly of it. No matter how good a cook you are, no matter how imaginative you are with your ingrediants, if you're cooking in an institutional setting, there will always be a certain percentage of people who just plain don't like it, and they won't necessarily be quiet about that fact.

On the other hand, in my profession as Glass-Half-Full girl, I think it's important to remember that there will also be a certain number of people (who will probably not say anything, sorry) who will be pleased to discover that there is a way they like beets or parsnips or liver. Just because a lot of these people are used to assuming that they'll get that grilled cheese sandwich and the tomato soup when they eat in a public dining room of this sort, doesn't mean some of them won't be pleasantly surprised when presented with something better and more imaginative.

The tough part of that end of the equation, as I said, is that these people probably won't think to say anything, while the complainers will. But somebody will have their mind opened. Somebody will find a new taste sensation for their palate. Somebody will discover that a long-detested food can become a favorite in the right hands. Hopefully, somebody will think to thank you at some point...just don't hold your breath too hard .

I'm actually more concerned about the physical strain on you, in some ways. I definitely agree that you need to make sure you're going to be able to get some help with some of the heavier tasks. I liked the idea raised of seeing if you can get some of the older kids as kitchen helpers, if that's legally possible. Not only would that aid you in doing your job, it would be a wonderful opportunity for the kids chosen to learn about food, seasonal cooking, kitchen health standards, and quite possibly job opportunities for the future. I'd look into that as an option.

Cooking is something I know you take great joy in. I believe that even institutional cooking can be seen as an opportunity rather than a drudgery that sucks all the delight out of the process of something you love. Of course there will be bad days when the ingrediants available to you will make you weep with frustration and the clients will all hate what you made of them. That's just the way things go, sometimes. But there will be other days, Fabi, when a kid suddenly comes up and asks when you'll be making those great beets again when it suddenly all seems worthwhile.

Take as much time as you reasonably can in deciding this. Every one of your concerns is completely valid. Don't give an answer until your physical concerns have been discussed and arranged with those in charge. I know, for your own peace of mind you'll need to know, for instance, what happens when you're sick and can't come in. You'll need to know who moves the boxes that are too heavy for you to lift.

On the emotional side, you need to look honestly within yourself and decide if you can cope with the criticism that is intevitable in a job of this nature. Can you cope with occasional choruses of 'that was the worst food ever', and get along with only the very rare 'I really loved the parsnips'? Not everyone can, and there's no shame in being one of those who can't.

As you know, I have every faith in you, Fabi. I think you often forget how strong you really are. Not to get too Zen about this, but the answers really are within. In your heart, you'll know, ultimately, if this is right for you. Look deep, don't be afraid of the answer, and you'll come up with the right one.

Whichever way you decide, I'll be there for you.

Twistie

[shawn-club.livejournal.com]

I'm not going to wade too deeply into it babe, but I will say that cooking is one of the reasons you were brought into this world. Having tasted a fine selection of your wares, I'm 100% positive that you can do this, and in doing so make a difference in peoples lives.

Please do stop to consider your health and mental well being first and formost though.

I love you.

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